“That’s harder than it sounds.”
Is it, though? Is it really? We’ve been making manual car door latches for 100 years.
It’s only hard for Musk, and only because he just doesn’t want to do it.
Seriously. Every other car maker has figured out how to make normal door handles. You can even buy the parts directly from them if you find it too hard to design yourself.
The point is that the entire passenger entry system has been designed around electronic door handles. So you might think it’s as simple as just swapping them for mechanical ones but it’s not.
The handles are really just buttons. Requests to a computer. The “locks” are just a binary state of the entry system that determines if conditions are satisfied to release the mechanical latch when the request is made.
We’ve had electronic door locks with manual override for… 3 decades now?
We’re not talking about door locks, but door latches and handles. There are no “locks” on Teslas. As I said “locked” is just a state in the computer.
“Lock” is a term for the mechanism that controls the latch and restricts operation. Whether the access mechanism is digital (key card, remote, etc) or physical (key, dial, etc) is irrelevant.
My point is it’s a solved problem. You can have a mixed physical and digital system. In fact, Teslas already have a mixed system as evidenced by the existence of a mechanical override. The issue is that the mechanical override is difficult to use and inaccessible from the outside.
If Tesla used something that already exists, we wouldn’t have this problem. It can still have the same interface (the button in the handle on both sides), just simplify the mechanical override and expose a way to access it from outside.
“Lock” is a term for the mechanism that controls the latch and restricts operation.
Again, there is no such mechanism.
Whether the access mechanism is digital (key card, remote, etc) or physical (key, dial, etc) is irrelevant.
It’s none of these things.
If Tesla used something that already exists, we wouldn’t have this problem.
But they didn’t. So the problem exists.
Again, there is no such mechanism.
Then how does the door stay closed? If I walk up to someone else’s Tesla, I can’t open it. Why? Because it’s locked. If the owner walks up, they can open it. Why? Because they have the key.
Yes, the lock works differently than many other cars, but there’s still a lock.
Here’s an article that talks about how the manual release works. It exists, it’s just annoying to access, and not something an average child (or possibly adult) can intuit.
The article is stating that the override should be easier to access and use.
Then how does the door stay closed?
You’re thinking of the door latch, not the door lock.
the lock works differently than many other cars, but there’s still a lock.
Again, there is no physical locking mechanism. That’s what’s different from any other cars in history.
Here’s an article that talks about how the manual release works
The mechanical latch is on the interior of the vehicle, thus bypassing any “locking” methods. You can’t do the same on the exterior.
I read the article. It sounds like the auto makers concern is that they don’t think they have been given enough time to solve the problem (the problem being one which may kill people while we wait for a solution).
I think we should give them all the time they want, as long as they stop selling cars without safe door handles RIGHT NOW.
“We meed more time even though door handles are a solved problem.”
Big government is oppressing small businesses again! Thanks Obama!
Opel Corsa 1993 presents:

Flat aerodynamic door handles.
Unless you’re planning to drive your car around at about 150 miles per hour I don’t imagine that the aerodynamicism of door handles really comes into account. Especially since you’ve still got wing mirrors, wipers, and aerials on the car.
Great. Next please: no more touch-controls. I want back haptic buttons for the most important stuff.
EDIT: Instead of silly downvotes, an opinion on why touchscreens/-buttons are superior would be preferable. I’m curious.
Touchscreens are infinitely reconfigurable. And the solution is cheaper. Some like the cleaner look when avoiding all the buttons and knobs.
Your delight ends where my safety begins. Taking your eyes off the road to operate your vehicle is a dangerous thing.
Tesla disregarded all knowledge about automotive door safety to make a more expensive and much more dangerous door handle.
This is what libertarians do for literally everything.
As a libertarian, that’s just not true. Elon Musk isn’t a libertarian either, he’s just an opportunist.
The libertarian solution to things like regulations is court precedent. Setting that precedent should be the job of the attorney general and a jury, and the legislature should only make broad laws.
This hopefully cuts down on government corruption since it’s theoretically harder to buy off a jury than legislators.
Man this comment is so fucking naive.
And no, that’s not libertarianism. What court precedent would other libertarians give a shit about following? And why should they?
And how do you enforce that with anything other than violence?
Congratulations, you just re-invented government.
What court precedent would other libertarians give a shit about following?
Most libertarians aren’t anarchists. It’s a big tent, but your average libertarian doesn’t even have an end goal in mind, they just want to move in a direction that prioritizes personal liberty and reduces the scope of government.
For example, most libertarians are in favor of:
- eliminating TSA, and returning security to airlines and airports
- reducing size of the military, and closing foreign bases
- eliminating any restrictions on marriage, and even removing the federal government from marriage (should be a private/religious thing)
- balancing the budget, mostly through cuts (eliminate whole agencies and departments)
- simplifying the immigration system and expanding immigration quotas for work visas
Those all share a theme, reducing the scope of government. The goal isn’t to eliminate the government, but to reduce how much the average person needs to care about it. The job is done once people can do what they like (provided it doesn’t harm anyone else) and not worry about politics.
Right. And surely all libertarians will always agree about which parts of the government need to be reduced.
Every time this shit is tried, it is a miserable failure. At best, they spend years learning the hard way as to why regulations exist. Regulations that were already written in blood, they just can’t be bothered to read the history about them (or they refuse to believe it if they don’t witness it themselves).
One recent example: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
See also: Sam Brownbeck’s adminstration in Kansas:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment
https://www.cbpp.org/blog/timeline-5-years-of-kansas-tax-cut-disaster
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/kansas-repubicans-gop-small-governement-brownback/
We need to stop thinking that we have some kind of hidden knowledge that the people who failed at this before didn’t have, and if we could just try it one more time, it will work this time bro I swear.
As I said, these regulations were written in blood. We don’t need more bloodshed just to relearn the lessons we’ve already learned (sometimes several times) already.
Right. And surely all libertarians will always agree about which parts of the government need to be reduced.
Of course. 😀
As I said, it’s a big tent, so you have everyone from far left anarchists (libertarian socialism/communism) to far right anarchists (anarchocapitalism and similar), as well as a bunch of centrists who want largely the same structure as today, but with a bit more restrictions on what the government can do to private citizens w/o a warrant and what associations people can make. Most seem to want less taxes and government spending overall, but as you imply, they would likely make different cuts.
One recent example:
From the article:
If you’ve ever encountered a freshly minted Ayn Rand enthusiast, you know what I mean.
Ayn Rand hated libertarians, and her followers (Objectivists) are likewise generally disliked by libertarians. Many libertarians find value in her works, but not necessarily as a complete solution, but as a direction. The underlying principles are completely different, with Ayn Rand and Objectivists generally believing that selfishness is best, while libertarianism’s foundational belief is a ban on the initiation of force (generally, but there are a lot of variations, like those who put private property first). Under objectivism, littering would only be bad if someone owned the property you littered on, whereas under libertarianism, littering is bad because it’s a form of force against others in the area (they have to see and/or clean up that trash).
That said, I think it’s important to note that something like this will attract the crazies. Most people won’t uproot their lives to go join some philosophical/political movement, they’ll just try to improve things where they are. So you’re going to get the more extreme ends of the libertarian spectrum that would be interested in moving there, especially those who can easily move on a whim (i.e. lots of money and/or no family attachments). This is going to attract those who want all the benefits of liberty without any of the consequences.
Ideally, shifts are gradual, so we can gauge whether things are getting better or worse, and the shift should be in the direction of more liberty. As people get accustomed to the additional responsibilities of increased liberty, we can continue making changes. People have gotten used to delegating their responsibilities to governments, and that mindset needs to change back to one where people are more aware of their impact on the world.
Sam Brownbeck’s adminstration in Kansas
Not a libertarian.
Tax cuts should only happen if spending cuts create a surplus. Brownbeck put the cart before the horse, and ended up needing to cut important spending to fuel the tax cuts, whereas the right way to do it is to make cuts on non-essential spending and cut taxes due to budget surplus. Most libertarians (outside those that believe starving the government of tax dollars is the way to go) will tell you we need a balanced budget first, tax cuts second.
The right way to do it IMO is closer to the way Utah is doing it (again, not libertarian, but probably closer than Brownbeck). I use this example because that’s where I live, so I know it better than most other states. Basically, Utah has a balanced budget clause in the constitution that requires the state legislature to pass a balanced budget. As such, we generally don’t have budget deficits, and when there’s a surplus, the legislature cuts taxes (income tax has dropped 0.5% over the past 10 years or so, in 0.05% and 0.1% increments; state sales tax has been 4-5% for 50 years). We also limit income taxes to education expenses, and since people generally don’t like high sales taxes (used for most other expenses), it puts downward pressure on spending.
If Utah was run by a libertarian, here are the shifts I’d expect to see:
- make transportation self-sufficient, by increasing vehicle registration taxes, adding toll roads, etc
- push to move more students to charter schools, since they seem to cost less and perform well (source from Sutherland Institute, a conservative think-tank in SLC, Utah, so be careful of bias)
- look into ways to reduce social service spending
- reduce criminal justice spending by legalizing/decriminalizing non-violent crimes (i.e. crimes w/o a victim), such as drug possession
If that yields enough spending reduction, then cut taxes. My personal preference is to eliminate the tax on groceries as it’s completely regressive (currently 3%, which is a bit under half the local sales tax, which is about 7.5% after city and county taxes are included), encourage counties to shift sales taxes to property taxes (again, more progressive), and increase the taxpayer credit (phases out as income increases, and kind of works like a tiered tax system).
We need to stop thinking that we have some kind of hidden knowledge that the people who failed at this before didn’t have, and if we could just try it one more time, it will work this time bro I swear.
I partially agree. However, I don’t think we should assume all laws and regulations are worth keeping, but don’t just rip them out all at once.
Changes should be gradual. One thing I’d like to see government do more of is fund research, specifically around which laws and regulations are actually needed, and which we can cut. Government’s main jobs should be:
- military and police to keep people safe, and courts for when that doesn’t happen (and we need to end Qualified Immunity)
- fund research to direct policy, with a focus on minimizing harm for regular people - we should have a constitutionally protected right to privacy, and any policies from the government must respect that (I think the US 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th, and 10th amendments should be sufficient, but that’s apparently not the case given the TSA, NSA, state abortion laws, etc)
- provide a safety net such that everyone has enough to survive (i.e. nobody should be below the poverty line); ideally this payout is $0 if society is doing a good enough job taking care of everyone, but we don’t live in an ideal world
Beyond that, governments should largely stay out of private affairs, and only step in when a wrong needs to be corrected. If a car company, for example, causes someone to die by a defective safety feature or something, they should pay a massive fine (not just to the family, but to everyone else who bought their defective product, and the government for any expenses in prosecuting them) and their leadership should be tried in court for criminal negligence. Companies would have an incentive to have their vehicles tested and insured by a private org, which would shield that company from any financial penalties, and that company would also have an incentive to make sure those products are safe to reduce chance of needing a payout.
Governments are often reactive to these sorts of issues, and we need a system that is proactive to prevent problems from happening in the first place. If an innovative design provides the same guarantees, it should be allowed, provided they find a company willing to insure them, even if it doesn’t work the same as other products on the market. If a company must put up $X (enough to cover the worst case scenario of a lawsuit) either directly in a trust or via an insurance company before selling anything on the market, you should get a lot fewer products that are fast-and-loose with the rules. To be effective, the penalties need to be massive and include the potential for jail time if there is any evidence of negligence.
I appreciate that you put time into this comment.
But I will never subscribe to your ideology. I think you should reconsider everything.
After renting a couple cars with electronic door poppers, I find them plainly worse than mechanical door latches. They’re a solution in search of a problem, and some implementations are hazardous.
I think having an electric popper on top of an mechanical door latch (actual door handles are standard mechanic, but there’s solenoid that can actuate them independently) is okay if you can find an actual usecase.
I mean sure still stupid but at least it isn’t dangerous.
Same way electric locks have worked for the past 30 years on cars.
An old civic might be able to unlock from a key fob, but that’s only an electronically controlled solenoid controlling a lock which is mechanical in nature, and who’s main user-accessible interaction point is mechanically linked to the lock.
Could they just use regular fucking door handles?
I remember when people kept trying to assert that Tesla is a “luxury” brand, though it seems that this pretense has finally been dropped. Even so, surely they can figure out something that doesn’t seem to be an issue for even the cheapest tier of vehicles available in USDM.
They can, it’s an article out of the air.
I’m calling corpo lobbied bullshit. 2 years is enough time to put a normal door handle on your car.
Cars are designed up to 5 years in advance. Usually the last 2 years before production is dedicated to endurance testing.
They’re not being expected to design a whole new car from scratch though, are they.
The issues could cascade beyond the design. The auto manufacturing industry operates on strict production schedules. Though it builds in time to validate and test whatever new features come in each new model, the sudden intro of a design change late in the process could throw off the delicate timetable.
FFS, it’s a bloody door handle, not full self driving tech. Author is full of BS.
A lot of upvotes here, and I think they’re ignoring how much is involved in production pipelines and the overhead of sourcing suppliers. That said, Musk has a habit of throwing in last minute changes and the company manages to handle those but much like self driving they ship late
Yeah let’s see, if the handle would have to be a different shape, they may need a different cutout for the door, different handle moulds, different mechanical parts, updated electronics… does anyone have a fucking clue how difficult it is to program one of those robotic arms? How expensive new moulds are? Any other potential knock-on effects this may have on the internal design?
People with the mentality of ‘it’s just a small plug at the bottom of the pool, how bad could it possibly be if we removed it’
They only have to redesign a new door, not an entire car.
Sure, it isn’t as easy adding a dent so you can grab the handle. But it is a lot easier and cheaper than designing a new door, which they do for every new model.
You do not know or believe how much shit has to be pipelined to get a simple change on a car design going on the market. If you have knowledge about computers, you quickly notice that the hardware and software running in a car are OLD. I’ve seen cars sold as new with processors so old, they are “no longer recommended for new designs”. This is because every single thing has to be tested and approved to death in a car. Sometimes several times over.
This is because every single thing has to be tested and approved to death in a car.
This is tesla though, how much testing do they actually do before passing it to customers for free QA?
Who cares? You only have yourself to blame for buying a Tesla.
Dude, you act like you’ve never been burned by someone in your life. Instead of shaming people for purchasing something and getting burned, we should all be getting together and shaming the companies that are enshitified.
Someone bought a Tesla.
I did, in 2020, and I liked everything except the range. Moved from that to a more invasive Chinese BYD, no regrets. My Han has electronic AND mechanical door handles.
2020 is way too late to not know who musk was.
Yep, I’ve been know to fuck up plenty, daily, for decades. That was one of way too many 😜










