cross-posted from: https://lemmy.cringecollective.io/post/75583
why isn’t it ok? why???
Meme “the number of people who think this is an abomination” over a photo of a USB-A to USB-A cable, “but think this is perfectly acceptable” over a photo of a USB-C to USB-C cable, “makes me sick.”
Huh, I’m not sure they are comparable.
Didn’t USB A and USB B use a master-slave relationship in which the male would (generally) always be the slave, whereas USB C uses agreement and discussion to decide the master and slave roles regardless of connector gender.
Please do correct me if I’m wrong. Also, do we say “agent” now instead of “slave”, or what is the new term?
I believe the common terms now are “domme” and “sub”
I can’t tell if this is real life or sarcasm…
Did I really miss the memo on this one?
No that’s the lingo the professionals use these days
I can confirm, I’m called sub at work
Ah yeah, I’ve heard that offices are rolling out a new role of office cumdump. Glad to hear from someone already in the role
journalctl --cumdump
I’m going to refer to myself as USB-B from now on
I think the biggest problem I see with A to A is: who’s delivering power, and who’s receiving it? Maybe if you use it only with the device it came with then it’ll be fine, but if anyone tries to just hook up that cable to two random computers, it might actually cause a short circuit and fry something.
Whereas Type-C was explicitly made to handle such situations.
Or a shorter reason: Type-C cable is allowed by the spec while Type-A is not.
Hrm. I have a keyboard that requires an A to A cable and I think it works with the cable any way around…
Might be wrong.
It makes sense, if I remember correctly the older USB cable (i.e. everything before Type-C) are passive, so as long as the pins are wired symmetrically it wouldn’t matter which side is which. But whoever made your keyboard really blundered, there is no reason in the world why anyone would do this. There’s so many options: the B connector, mini USB, micro USB. All would make sense to put in the keyboard. A just doesn’t.
Let me guess: you got it from an ultra cheap online store? AliExpress/Wish/Temu?
You guessed wrong.
It’s a ridiculously expensive and “home made” looking, but it saved my hands from OCD.
Ooh, I did guess wrong! That is an interesting specimen.
My suspicion is that they are experts in ergonomics, not in electrical engineering, so they probably aren’t aware of how silly and possibly dangerous what they did is. Or perhaps they simply don’t care because “it gets the job done”, standards and specifications be damned.
Anyway, in this case I’m happy to be proven wrong. Thanks.
I known they outsourced the firmware development, so who knows, maybe the electronics hardware too.
I’ve actually used this to my advantage. I bought some cheap speaker/light combos which basically made the lights dance to the music. The only power connector was a wire that comes straight out of the device and into an outlet. But it did have a USB port for loading music from a USB stick. So naturally I plugged one side of a USB A into the port and the other side into a power bank and it just straight up worked.
master/slave could be primary/secondary, primary/subordinate or principle/agent, so you’re correct on that replacement.
I personally am a big fan of “Mantrap” becoming an “Access Control Vestibule” mostly because it’s fun to say.
I like controller/peripheral, which is the most descriptive in my opinion. That’s what’s commonly used for SPI.
I’ve been using parent/child, I guess that’s not always correct?
In the usb world its “host” and “device”, not “master” and “slave”.
But yes you are rightBoth ends of a USB cable are generally male (unless you’re talking about an extender). Generally the type B end (in mini, micro, or full configuration) would be the client though I have seen a couple of clients use Mini or Micro A.
Yeah we’ve been going by primary-secondary where I am for the just 6 to 7 years now but I don’t think a universally agreed replacement for the terms exists yet.
Mechanics are still trying to figure that out with the “master cylinder” and “slave cylinder”
Type C sounds like a healthy relationship.
I have a healthy relationship with my Master uwu
I think reusing server/client naming for USB connectivity instead of master/slave would fit it
USB-A male to USB-A male is not in any USB standard (not entirely true, but compliant cables are very rare and don’t connect voltage), and if you plug it into a device it’s not meant for, the behavior is entirely unspecified. It will probably do nothing. But it might fry your USB controller that is not expecting to receive voltage.
USB-C to USB-C is in the spec, and if you plug in two host devices, they won’t hurt each other. You can actually charge a host device over USB-C, unlike USB-A.
That’s why it isn’t ok. It’s not the same thing, it’s not in the standard, and it can even be dangerous (to the device).
I think the argument that A-A should be in the spec.
But usb-c is just so much better all around.
A to B made more sense in a world where devices cannot serve as both roles via negotiation. My android phone when I got it utilized a data transfer method of plugging my iPhone charge port into my Android charge port, then the Android initiated the connection as a host device.
The true crime is not that the cable is bidirectional, the true crime is that there is little to no proper distinction and error checking between USB, Thunderbolt, and DisplayPort modes and are simply carried on the same connector. I have no issues with the port supporting tunneled connections - that is in fact how docking stations work - just the minimal labeling we get in modern devices.
I’d be fine with a type-A to type-A cable if both devices had a reasonable chance at operating as both the initiator and target - but that type of behavior starts with USB-OTG and continues in type-C.
The USB spec requires one master and one slave device, which is usually decided by which type of connector each side has. USB OTG can bypass that restriction, but I’ve only ever seen it done with micro USB or type C.
I actually have one of the USB A cables above from an old android tablet that had 2 full USB A ports on the side.
One was always a slave/device port while the other actually had a physical switch to change from Host to Device.
That used to be my mobile media tablet. I could cast wirelessly or steam directly from the mini HDMI port. Such an awesome device for how cheap it was.
USB-A requires three attempts to connect, C only one.
Six since it has A at both ends.
- 3 for A, 5 for B.
There is no USB-B here and it is pretty hard to get the wrong direction anyway.
Sorry, I meant for a “normal” A to B cord lol.
I absolutely have some Type C cables that only work one way because there’s no enforced standards and the manufacturer will wire them however is cheap, throw on another company’s logo, and sell it to Amazom.
Don’t buy electronics through amazon. This is precisely why.
Even if you don’t, there is basically no way to tell you’ve got a legit authentic product that passed QC until you test it yourself. The supply chains that give retailers plausible deniability wrt child labor also by their nature allow counterfeits.
You have to get your electronics from somewhere, retailers’ supply chain has a helluva lot more quality control than Amazon. Just because you can’t get to 100% doesn’t mean you shouldn’t strive for, well, anything more than the worst chances anyone can offer.
I imagine that “sold by Amazon” has about the same supply chain reliability as big box retailers. On Amazon you do gotta check your seller rating if you’re not buying prime, but that’s not harder than driving to best buy, and big box retailer online stores have the same problem when they’re the storefront for 3rd parties (as many are, trying to emulate Amazon).
On Amazon, reviews can be faked, but at least it has reviews.
You’re wrong. Amazon mixes inventory between themselves and any other seller that’s fulfilled by Amazon, meaning if one random seller has fake product, then even the “sold by Amazon” option can send you that other seller’s fake product. And vice versa, of course.
Ooph yeah that seems pretty bad. What is even the purpose of seller rating with FBA if the inventories are mixed?
When I need something for work I have a company account.
I have never seen this.
There is absolutely a certification process, but playing legal whack-a-mole with fly-by-night counterfeiters is difficult.
This is why buying reputable brands from reputable sellers is important.But even then, I remember years ago I read an article about major retailers selling counterfeit brand name SD cards that didn’t meet the labeled performance specifications and had very poor QC. Turns out that gray market sellers were buying batches of the real product that failed QC and just reselling them as though they were fine, and they ended up making their way back into the distribution network.
In the end the conclusion was that we’re all kind of fucked until retailers start being way more strict about their supply chains, which they are disincentivized to do, because the current system gives them plausible deniability on things like child labor.They’ll also buy the real product, return the counterfeit product, then sell the real one.
Who is “they”?
You have to test the product to know it’s counterfeit. Then you have to return it. Then you have to buy it again and, what? Hope that what they have stocked is from a different batch? I don’t think this is any different between Amazon and other retailersThe counterfeiters buy legit products and return their cheapo fakes through fake buyer accounts. So for the price of manufactoring the counterfeit products they’ve purchased the real thing.
They then sell the authentic products through other channels and appear to be supplying authentic, quality products affordably to buyers and marketplaces while at the same time poisoning the legitimate market.
It’s essentially counterfeit laundering.
Gross. I haven’t run into that.
I have a switch controller that requires two plug ins to work
I guess the usb spec makes you sick then.
With the the first one you can fry your gear, while stuff that takes the second one does auto negotiation.
I realy don’t want a cable i plug both ends in wrong and have to turn them a couple of times
Well, if you have asymmetric cables, there’s always one clearly-defined host and the other one is the slave.
it works like sex: with usb-c, both devices more or less kinda have ti “negotiate” who’s dom and who’s sub. that takes extra negotiation effort and makes the protocol more complicated. and therefore more expensive imo.
Just a small nitpick, but sub or dom doesn’t care about gender or sex, its top or bottom you mean in your example :)
bottom dom sounds interesting 🤔
Is that like a power bottom on steroids?
more like a power button
more expensive imo.
actually the same pins (well one of them , though since the connector is rotationally symmetric you need two anyway) are used for USB Power Delivery and to negotiate what speed regime to operate in .
furthermore , USB On the go , which was introduced in USB 2.0 , offers the same functionality for USB Micro and USB Mini
I’ve never seen a USB-A to A cable in the wild, except recently, where I finally unpacked my SATA/IDE USB adapter from Ugreen.
They used to be moderately common in the before times, like 2.5 inch IDE HDD times.
For added horror those often where Y cables, too.
My USB KVM switch uses them
They are commonly used with USB keystone connectors. For some reason most of them have A connectors on both sides.
Most cheap usb switchers will use them on the computer-switch side. I have a few models that I was testing out so I have a small pile of these. They’re great for cutting in half and using as a small usb power supply cable to breadboard projects, along with the horde of 5w Apple chargers I have in a bin.
I’ve had old Ugreen devices with a similar setup. Notably a KVM that fried my keyboard bc they failed to follow USB spec.
A-to-A cables are, in general, a hardware design smell. It’s best to avoid devices that don’t care enough to follow the spec.
In the long, long ago, we used to use USB-A to A cables to transfer customers’ Mac OS X user profiles when they would buy a new Mac. Also worked with Target Disk Mode, way back when.
I only remember doing this with FireWire. Which model supported target disk mode over USB-A?
Ha, old man brain glitching there. The A to A cable we used for file migration, but we had to stick an A to C adapter on one end to use TDM on some machines (had to be USB 3 rated, I think). It was around 2016, if I remember correctly? It honestly didn’t come up that often.
Apple didn’t use FireWire for that?
They did, but the first run of MacBooks we got that didn’t have Firewire would let you use USB. But we needed an A to C adapter to make that work.
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The joke is that A to A doesn’t make sense.
Yeah just guessing if the cable supports the right usb-c protocol. The port is great. The protocol is horrible you have like 10 different versions of the same protocol. And you have to pray that your cable supports the right one you need.
USB-C is an absolute shit-show. Half a dozen types of identical looking cables all with different performance and compatability. They can be power only, USB-2 only, USB 3, 3.1, 5gb, 10gb. Some can carry 5A, others only 3A. Some may support thunderbolt. Cable sellers and manufacturers can/will claim anything.
For people selling USB-C devices it’s a massive support problem. It looks like the device is defective, but someone may just have swapped out the cable for their phone charger cable and there’s no way of telling.
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The joke is that USB-A shouldn’t be paired with another USB-A. It should be using a USB-B on the other end. USB-A to USB-A could potentially be damaging, as both devices will expect to be providing power. USB-B denotes that a device is “receiving” USB, not “sending” it.
It is a fact that USB-C is superior.
The floating tang in the center of the USB-C receiver is a classic “planned obsolescence” design feature. Its built to fail and force you to buy a new device.
Source on this?
I’d love to see a source, I have literally never had the internal flap break and I must have had at least 30-40 devices pass through my hands with USB C by now
Everything from a cheap Chinese brand wireless mouse up to my main phones (which are constantly plugged in and out) to all the random laptops, tablets, Xbox controllers and other peripherals in between.
It’s never happened, though crud does build up in my phone port after a year or 2 to the point that I have to clean it out, but that’s nothing but a small paper clip and 5 minutes
Yeah, usb-c is pretty much the awesomeness they set out to become with USB a
What’s a common thing that would require the use of USB A on both ends?
it was common amongst digital cameras in the early 2000’s.
and maybe you could somehow link up two computers as well…? tho that could have been some specialized cables
They make A-to-A cables with a bit of file transfer software integrated into the cord. Useful for transferring big files between two PCs without setting up a network.
Back then as a kid I always wondered that how the hell would Windows Commander/Total Commander’s Connection between two PC with USB cable feature work and what cable would it need… (never saw A to A cables at that point)
The help file was about some special cable, but the photo had an A-A cable on it with some extra circuits in a plastic casing near the connectors. I was amazed and sad at the same time, since I would never had such a cable, and I really wanted to try hook up two PCs with USB, that just sounded nasty for some reason 😅
The only place i ever saw it was on those cooling padas for laptops
nothing worthwhile, as it’s not allowed (for a good reason)
Who are these people?
Was gonna ask, never heard of anyone.
That’s just one internet rando.
The internet rando that caused me to make this meme
“they are the same picture” -my wife
What if I put a C-to-A Adapter on both ends? Is that okay?
C to A adapters are sick and illegal
I still have some
Why would that be illegal? Shouldn’t there be some way to plug an older flash drive or console cable into a laptop that doesn’t have a type A port? (Ahem, Mac)
This is what I mean. This won’t help in your case.
They might have been referring to an adapter with a female USB type C port and male type a port.
Yea but it’s inefficient. USB-A has a significantly lower transfer rate than USB-C so it’ll bottleneck
