• _number8_@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    aside from the issue of ‘prohibition still doesn’t work’, i don’t think giving kids or “underage” adults criminal charges for cigarettes is making anything better for anyone

    • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Smoking age is specifically the ability to purchase. There are no criminal/civil charges for underage smoking. The crimes are specifically 1) selling to minors 2) buying for minors.

      TL;DR: No one goes/will go to jail for underage smoking. They won’t even get in trouble for buying. The onus is on the vendor OR the legal purchaser who handed them off.

      • Melkath@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Incorrect.

        A black market is created, kids still smoke, but poor people making a buck selling to kids go to jail.

        It doesn’t fix the issue and syphons poor people into prisons.

        • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          What? Yes all of what you said is true…but how am I incorrect? Kids do not go to prison or anything for underage smoking. The law is written that way on purpose. Yes other problems occur but underage smoking is not a crime. That is all I’m saying.

          There are no criminal/civil charges for underage smoking.

          • Melkath@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Prohibition laws do put people in prison.

            “Noone goes to prison for underage smoking”. False. The people selling the cigarettes, poor people trying to make a buck, go to jail for the underage smoking.

            I suggest we do nothing.

            Prohibition doesn’t work.

            Mind your own business.

            • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              “Noone goes to prison for underage smoking”. False. The people selling the cigarettes, poor people trying to make a buck, go to jail for the underage smoking

              That has nothing to do with smoking! All of those charges occur whether or not a kid lights up a cigarette! Are you joking with me right now?

              If a 15 year old kids lights up a cigarette there is nothing a cop can do about it. All laws around tobacco are around the sale of tobacco and a minor is not civilly or criminally liable for 1) purchasing or 2) smoking cigarettes. This isn’t alcohol where public intoxication is a crime. There are no laws about smoking cigarettes related to age, only location (hospitals, schools, airplanes, etc.).

              • Melkath@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You’re just being purposefully obtuse now.

                No. The kids aren’t the ones going to prison, but the prohibition laws do send people to prison.

                  • Melkath@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    No. I am pointing out that you are making two conflicting statements.

                    You are doing mental gymnastics.

                    Back to the point “Noone goes to prison for underage smoking”. Yes they do. When you make prohibition laws creating the concept of “underage smoking” you ARE sending SOMEONE to prison.

                • null@slrpnk.net
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                  1 year ago

                  No one but you is being obtuse here.

                  You “corrected” someone by making an entirely different point from the one they made. In fact, the person you said was “wrong” actually stated the very thing you did.

                  No one is saying your point is wrong. Just that it isn’t a correction.

                  • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    The dude has such a Reddit hangover he can’t help but argue even when no one disagrees with him. It’s baffling.

            • Kepabar@startrek.website
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              1 year ago

              I would argue that society should reserve the right to punish individuals who harm others for their personal benefit.

              And I would argue that selling a physically addictive substance that directly causes harm with no benefit to the user for personal profit is causing harm.

              So while I don’t support arresting people for smoking, I 100% so support arresting people for selling.

              • Melkath@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Again, I just see mental gymnastics.

                So you just outright said that people should be free to smoke, but anyone who sells what is being smoked should be incarcerated.

                How is that not a complete oxymoron?

                No. You have a factually flawed bias against a thing, and you want to mob up with other people to enforce your opinions and will upon people you disagree with.

                As a result, you want to imprison poor people and not accomplish what you claim to want to accomplish.

          • Melkath@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Happy you are for the siphoning of poor people to for profit prisons.

            Really sounds like your plan to eradicate tobacco from existing is solid.

        • zephyreks@lemmy.mlOPM
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          1 year ago

          How do you propose this black market gets created? In theory, no new addicts would get created because the smoking age rises in lockstep with the people themselves.

          • Neve8028@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Yes, because no one has ever smoked before they reached the legal age.

          • Petter1@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            There is already a black/gray marked near many schools (for the younger, there are cigarettes and for the older there is weed.) it’s a market where there is just one person selling, it is more a fluid market where the young people sell and buy to each other, mostly there are multiple kids with connections to get the goods in any school and then it rotates through the different kids by selling, buying, stealing etc. Source: I’m 26 now, and don’t believe that has changed since I left school.

    • genoxidedev1@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I know this is pretty radical, but if we made smoking FFA way fewer people should theoretically start smoking in the first place. From my experience when I was still at school most of the people there were only smoking because it’s “cool”, making smoking legal for everyone should take the coolness factor away at least.

      • Melkath@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Please, oh dear god…

        Please tell me what FFA means and how it doesn’t amount to “send poor people to prison”.

        • genoxidedev1@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          FFA just means “free for all” (it’s a term from competitive games, in case you shouldn’t know), in this context I used it as another word for ‘legal’.

          • Melkath@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Oh thank god.

            Yes, I 100 percent agree with you. Your thought process is the way.

            Sorry I was so adversarial in my first comment. A lot of the rest of this thread has me all sorts of triggered.