I’m about to start my 12 week paternity leave next week thanks to a state program and almost everyone that I’ve told has had their jaws on the floor that I would even want to do that.
Today I witnessed a group of coworkers almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born. I’ve heard stuff like “Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don’t take leave”.
To me it was a no brainer, I’m getting ~85% of my normal pay and I get to take care of my wife, our son and our newborn for 3 whole months. and for someone who hasn’t taken a day breathe in the past 3 years I think I deserve it.
I’m in the US so I know it’s a “strange” concept, but people have seemed genuinely upset, people it doesn’t affect at all. Again, it’s a state program available to almost anyone who’s worked in the past 2 years, I’ve talked to soon to be dads who scoffed at the idea and were happy to use a week of pto and that’s it.
I feel like I’m missing something.
My company offers parental leave (generic, not gender-specific, and applies to adoptions as well as giving birth). Everyone I work with expects people—men included—to take it.
A guy on my team took his a couple years ago and now with his second child recently born, he is applying his lesson learned. Instead of taking the time as soon as his kid is born, overlapping time off with his wife, he’s letting his wife take her full time then he’s taking his. That way they stagger the full-time care of the newborn for about 6 months straight, after which his wife will be done teaching for the summer, meaning more like 8 months straight.
Another coworker (Director level) had his latest kid December before last. Our busy time is January to April, so he delayed and took his time off in May or June.
Fuck companies that don’t support it and the small-minded people who think men shouldn’t take it. I can understand how challenging it can be for a small business to support that kind of leave, but as humans we should care more about supporting the next generation than a couple hits to productivity at work for 2-3 months. (I write as a permanently child-free person.)
What you’re missing is that the people you work with are stuck in the mindset from 2 generations ago. Don’t buy in. Taking your leave IS supporting your family; you’re doing it right.
I’m not a psychologist or whatever to say how long but the dad should get as much leave as the mother does to help deal with all the new baby shit and bond with the child.
You should take all the time you can get. Fuck other people’s expectations.
My manager is on paternaty leave for half a year, it is normal here, he is a dad after all!
My man, you are literally getting paid to spend time with a tiny human being you helped make. You’d have to be pretty deep into the Kool-aid bottle to say no to that.
I had my mandatory 15 weeks last year and loved it, so from one dad to another: enjoy it!
And remember: if you die tomorrow, you’ll be replaced at work within a few weeks, but you can never ever be replaced at home.
@neomachino,
You will never get the time back to be with your offspring during these formative months into years. I would scoff at any “scoffers” and tell them their bragging about not taking time off to be with their family isn’t the flex they think it is. Life is more than just your occupation. I’m an American living in the Netherlands with my Dutch wife these days, and I can guarantee with certainty my European colleagues would scoff at me if I didn’t take the time off. Attitudes towards this are changing in the U.S., albeit too slowly in my opinion, but our culture is fundamentally sick. I primarily blame puritanical christian zealotry that made its pact with the devil (pun fully intended) with avaricious capital for much of the woes found in our society, for what its worth. The gods willing, this will die out in a few generations.
Take the time and cherish it; your future self and children will thank you.
Paternity leave is a no brainer for families of all stripes. Both spouses should have time off to care for their children in the first year of their life, especially during the vulnerable first year before they are immunized against dangerous diseases. And I’m in a same sex relationship, so I’m definitely using it when we are ready to have kids, haha.
Honestly, each parent should have 6 mo of paid leave.
Edit: adding onto this, all men’s bathrooms should have changing stations. It’s insane that some women’s do, but men’s do not.
Honestly, each parent should have 6 mo of paid leave.
Heck yes. 12 weeks is nothing. The baby still needs a ton of help at this stage.
all men’s bathrooms should have changing stations
This is unfortunately one of those things that people care about greatly for a very short time when it affects them and then never more. It never really gets any traction.
Thankfully it never was much of an issue to me, even if I almost singlehandedly changed every single diaper due to my wife having a bad shoulder. I quickly learned to change a diaper everywhere. On the floor, in the car, busting into the ladies nursery rooms, just everywhere. I got so good at it, that I bet I could change a diaper faster and cleaner than a Formula One wheel even without a table.
Nobody ever complained. The only odd situation was when I busted into a nursing room full of muslim women where a young mother was breastfeeding. Her entourage gave me quite the looks and standing in my way shielding her, so I said “I need to change diaper”. The mother looked up and everyone was watching her for a reaction, but she smiled and said “It’s right over there” pointing me to the changing table. It was quite the stinker, so I apologized on my way out.
However. I admit. This is not the best way to change diaper. A good diaper change is not fast. It’s a time for bonding. It’s not something I want to do in a public space with the rest of the family waiting for us, but at home, it’s the perfect time to get some eye contact with the baby and confirming that, yes, your father is there for you to get you out of all the shit you get yourself into. It’s perfectly fine if it takes half an hour in which most of the time is spent playing peak-a-boo. It’s a chore, but it’s also a much needed break from other chores. And this counts for both parents at the same time. Your partner would love nothing more than for you to disappear with the baby for half an hour.
And that is why paternity leave is really important for the father and baby.
However. I admit. This is not the best way to change diaper. A good diaper change is not fast. It’s a time for bonding. It’s not something I want to do in a public space with the rest of the family waiting for us, but at home, it’s the perfect time to get some eye contact with the baby and confirming that, yes, your father is there for you to get you out of all the shit you get yourself into. It’s perfectly fine if it takes half an hour in which most of the time is spent playing peak-a-boo. It’s a chore, but it’s also a much needed break from other chores. And this counts for both parents at the same time. Your partner would love nothing more than for you to disappear with the baby for half an hour.
I love this perspective. I’ve definitely become inured to diaper changes and I try to get them done as fast as possible, but this is sweet and you’re right, it’s a moment for some low key play, eye contact and for them to know you’re taking good care of them. What a nice way of looking at cleaning up poop 😆
I don’t think you’re missing anything. I think that your co-workers bragging is one of the toxic effects of how we tend to think about productivity nowadays, especially in America. I think that there’s a tendency to glorify suffering (i.e. sacrificing time with your family to do so much work that by the time you get home to your family, you’re too exhausted to be fully present with them).
I know fathers who effectively didn’t have a choice about spending time with their newborns, because of a mixture of social pressures (especially gendered pressure from extended family) and financial pressure (such as not having access to paternity leave), who then go on to brag about how much they worked and sacrificed, framing it as if it’s a choice they’re glad they made. I think that for some people, this nonsense rhetoric is what they tell themselves to cope with the fact they were effectively coerced into something they regret.
Long story short, you’re not missing anything. You are, in some ways though, going against the grain: even in places that have paid paternity leave, that alone isn’t enough to change the tide of social attitudes. That change happens because of people like you who go “fuck this nonsense, I’m not making a martyr of myself to support my family when I can do a much better job supporting them if I’m there with them”.
Unfortunately, based on reports from friends who are fathers, this is just scratching the surface of people being weird about men who are enthusiastic and engaged fathers. It sounds like you’ve got your priorities in order though. Your coworkers are very silly, and even if you don’t feel it appropriate or necessary to tell them how absurd they are, you should at least internalise the fact that you are the sensible one here. An analogy that comes to mind is how, if your employer matches your 401k contributions, it’s a no-brainer to take advantage of what is basically free money. If someone has “spare” salary and asked for financial advice online, one of the first and most basic suggestions is often that if you’re not already taking advantage of any 401k match your employer offers, you definitely should be. It’s free money! Similarly, taking advantage of the paid paternity leave is a no-brainer. This isn’t a challenge run in a video-game, so there aren’t any prizes for making things needlessly harder for oneself.
Edit: Also, I bloody hate it when people say shit like this:
“Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don’t take leave”.
The subtext they’re saying here is “I don’t acknowledge parenting (and other caring labour) as being hard work, and I certainly don’t acknowledge how critical essential this labour is for the world to function. I assume that this work is primarily for women, because this allows me to ignore it and the people who do it, which allows me to feel more important. The only way I can maintain my self identity as ‘hardworking’ is if I implicitly demean others’ hard work”.
It’s bullshit, and your instincts are right to flag this shit as weird. Parenting is bloody difficult, and anyone who makes comments like this are actively reinforcing old systems that led to many fathers not being given the opportunity to be active fathers.
Anyway, rant finished. I’ll finish this edit with something I forgot to say in my main comment: congratulations, and good luck in the weeks to come. And well done on taking this paternity leave, because that helps to disrupt the existing, outdated systems of traditional family structure that make everyone miserable. The impact of one person’s choice is only small, but if enough people opt for their family over slaving over the altar of capitalism, I hope that we can build a world where a father wanting to actively be a father is treated like the normal thing it is.
Good for you! That time with your family is really important.
I’m from the US and I caused quite a stir when I took 4 weeks off; 3 days paternity leave and the rest was accrued vacation. HR was trying to convince me to break it up because “it would set a bad precedent.” But my boss was supportive and approved it anyway.
Both parents should be entitled to take 12 months leave as a minimum, and their employer should be required to pay their salary and protect their position during that time.
In a lot of developed countries the employer can claim back money from the government when a employee takes maternity leave or sick leave.
That way companies don’t really have a reason to discriminate based on if you might get pregnant etc.
I believe in leave for having a child but how do you picture this working unless it is government funded? Lad and lass get out of college at 22. Enter their first job. Are there for 6 months to a year, and then take a year off, go back to work for 6-12 months, off for a year. Now they are 25-26 years old, 2 kids and have at most 2 years of experience in their field. Have only worked for the company for most 2 years and had 2 years off. In which then many would leave that job as it no longer fits around their schedules assuming the business didn’t do layoffs and such.
I know a lot of people think they’ll wait till their older to have kids but a lot of that is about time and financial security. If I knew my job was secure when I was coming out of college I would have married my then fiancee and would have reproduced 2-3 times at that age. Putting 60,000 young humans in a small area made for a lot of active fit horny people. I know a lot of Universities are smaller, but either way, I can’t see any small businesses surviving it. They’d all have to choose to hire 35+ year old workers to lower their odds of paying out the leave. (Unless like mentioned previously it’s all covered by the state)
I mean, I’m no economist so I cant exactly speak on the how, but the government should be involved in the funding for this, passing the financial burden onto parents would just cause either those couples to not have kids, or not give those new born kids the adequate attention they need leading to further problems in their life.
Oh I agree it would help with birth rates. And mental health of the population. But healthy isn’t what we do around here. I watched a woman with 1 arm being told off last night at work that she wasn’t likely to be able to keep her performance numbers up and should consider quitting instead of trying to ask her if she would find a better fit somewhere else that would work better for her situation. They are hiring like crazy so just about every position is open. The people watch you go through a metal detector on the way in and tell you to take your keys out and try again. You can do that all day with 1 arm. (Strange that we have that, but huge company and many expensive parts I assume they are worried people might be walking out with. Or maybe it’s for cameras coming in… Idk. Either way, they are hiring for positions that don’t require you to belittle someone but rather find a better use, it’s not like they could have gotten through interviews and paperwork without disclosing they had a disability. (Not to mention companies get tax write offs for having employees with disabilities last I checked)
-sorry for the rant, new contract one week down and learning what kind of company it is
No worries, happy to read your rant. Hope your job gets better
Its amazing. Especially if you take it when mom goes back to work. That’s your time to figure out how to be a parent. Not what works for mom or grandparents. Your thing between dad and baby. I figured out I had to take walks around the block to get baby to nap. I think of that sometimes now when she’s big. Also: if they give you shit: say - “I just don’t get why you wouldn’t want to spend more time with your kids.”
My wife’s a gig worker and does mostly weekends in summer so I usually get all of that time to be a parent on my own, and while I miss my wife a lot, I love being the sole parent. My son and I have such a different flow than him and my wife and it’s so interesting to see.
That first summer with our oldest was rough, he was only a few months old, I was working 2 jobs just so we could scrape by so he didn’t really know me yet, he screamed and screamed but eventually we got in a good groove and I found a spot on his back that if I rubbed put him right to sleep. That spot still works 3 years later
almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born
I had a coworker bragging about lying to his wife that he couldn’t take time off. This is fucked up on so many levels: why even have a kid? Why do you lie to your wife? Why are you telling people you barey know (I had been there for like two weeks) that you lie to your wife? WTF?
I feel like I’m missing something.
Maybe they’re insecure? They don’t know what to do with the new kid, and instead of figuring it out together with their partner they run back to the things they know and hide behind a fake martyrdom. I wonder how many of them will in a few months or years say that women are “naturals” when it comes to taking care of kids.
Congrats on the kid and on being an actual dad!
Why marry her if you don’t like her that much? Like, seriously? I know there is the meme of “burnt-out husband spending weekends working overtime so he can avoid his wife”, but those are usually failing relationships.
heard stuff like “Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don’t take leave”
Very cringe and capitalist boot-licking mindset
Let me introduce you to a new concept: 躺平
Chinese people are actually so based and is already resisting their State-Capitalist CCP tyranny
We should learn a thing or two
😎
To me it was a no brainer, I’m getting ~85% of my normal pay
You get paid?
OF COURSE FUCKING TAKE IT. I’d even take it unpaid, GETTING PAID IS LIKE A CHERRY ON TOP. TAKE IT 😎
The quote you’ve quoted is insane. My company gives full pay and same time as maternity leave. 15% pay is fucked. My partner and I are never having kids but I fully support that.
Aside from the obvious fact that you should ne there for your partner and child, paternity leave is both economically sound for your employer and the economy as a whole.
It will mean a healthier child with better relationships to his parents. This will improve his/her performance in school, reduce the likelyhood of problematic behaviour requiring interventions and later the likelyhood of criminal activity.
So your child will likely be a more productive and reliable grown up eventually and you will have less stress as parents, which also improves your productivity.
There is no level of productivity boost that can make up for months of actual absence lol
Paternity leave helps employers attract talent; in all other ways it does not help them at all.
There is no level of productivity boost that can make up for months of actual absence lol
You are absent for half a year. After that you are 20% more productive. After three years the employer will have made a profit on that time investment.
Or you go back to work straight away, you are constantly tired, you are constantly stressed. You make mistakes causing delays and damages in the hundreds of thousands, that you would not make otherwise…
If you have an extra 20% productivity to give, you’re probably not a great worker to start with. And even so, it’s rare to keep sn employee 3 years anymore.
I took it, no way I’d miss spending quality time with our newborn and be there for my wife.
The employer has some heads up that it’s coming too, so they can adjust the workload for something that occurs maybe once or twice in an employee’s lifetime.
But then I live in Quebec, Canada and the father can take 5 weeks and the mother can take a year. (The father can take more, but they’re swapped of the mother’s year).
I enjoyed my time with our newborn, but it’s no vacation. I took 4.5 months of paternity leave in a row.
Sweden is pretty generous with parental leave. Me and the Mrs get 480 days to share between us. 390 of which are at some 80% of our salary. The other 90 days pay peanuts, but great to have when you need some time off to get started with preschool and stuff. You have 90 days earmarked for yourself that can’t be transferred to the other parent.
At 5 days a week those 480 days last two years.
